Career vs Job: What Justin Laule Learned the Hard Way

Career vs job: a job pays you for your time now, and a career is the direction that connects your jobs over years, so each role adds skills, reputation and options for the next one. You can work for decades and only ever have jobs. Justin Laule, host of the Das Game podcast, put it this way on episode 4 of my podcast, CHANGES: "Also, most people, I think, don't have careers. They have jobs." His way out is practical. Choose work that teaches you, list what you have already done, and look for the thread that runs through it.

Justin and I recorded in Bali, as a joint episode of CHANGES and Das Game. We talked about how school, money and the people around you keep you inside the system, and what it took each of us to get out. Below are the lessons I took from it, with Justin's words quoted from the recording.

Career vs job at a glance

The same job can sit on either side of this table. Justin's example was restocking shelves: "So if I just have a job and I'm restocking shelves, for example, I might be learning resilience." Then he added the catch: "eight hours have passed and I have not grown really." The job matters less than what you take from it and where it leads.

Who is Justin Laule?

Justin hosts Das Game, a podcast about the real game behind how we love, learn and break the mold. In our episode he says he moved a lot as a child: "every two or three years I changed like social groups." He lived in Mexico for four years, worked as a store manager, taught skiing and had arrived in Bali one week before we hit record. He is open about the office not suiting him: "I'm not the guy who plays the corporate game good."

1. Pick work that teaches you something

Justin's rule for choosing work: "my goal is to learn instead of like getting paid to not learn." He tested it with a question. Would you take a creative job you love for a little less money than a job in a suit that bores you? In his words: "Don't you think 3,500 euros is better than 4,000 euros?"

His bet is that interest pays off over time: "if you don't do it for money, you will make more money." That is his view, and for many people 500 euros a month decides whether rent gets paid. My advice is to test the trade before you make it. Do the work you love on the side for a few months, then decide with real numbers.

2. Find the thread in what you have already done

Justin told me he spent most of his life on one question: "I spend probably 80 or 90% of my life so far just trying to answer this question. What do I do?" What helped was a list: "I used to write down just lists. What did I do exactly when and where? And I would use to write down next to it, what I liked about it".

His list showed him a pattern he had missed. Teaching skiing meant listening to people on the chairlift for hours, and he says "80% of being a ski instructor is being their psychologists." That interest in why people act the way they do is what pulled him towards marketing. He compared it to Steve Jobs, who took a calligraphy class that only made sense years later.

Try it yourself. Write every job, course and side project you have done in one column. Next to each, write what gave you energy. Circle what repeats. If you want a fuller method with free career tests, read my guide on what career is right for me.

3. Change who and what you listen to

Most people know the line about being the average of the five people around you. Justin extends it: "you're the average of the five people you surround yourself with. But also the five people that you consume content from". If your friends do not understand the change you want, he says, listen to long interviews with people who have made it, and fill your days with their thinking until you can find those people in person.

I saw the same in my own life. When I changed how I lived in my twenties, my circle changed with it, and for a while I felt alone. Your old friends did nothing wrong. You are heading somewhere else.

4. Learn fast by teaching

When an employee told Justin he should become a ski instructor, he could not afford to ski for fun. So he found a way to get paid for it. "I learned how to ski and snowboard in two weeks." He got good enough to teach beginners on the easy slopes, then moved on to the red and black runs himself. His reasoning: "what is the best way to learn something? Teach it."

He is honest about the cost: "That's the thing I think I also struggle with till this day is the imposter syndrome." You will feel underqualified on the first day of any new career. Justin's story shows you can start before that feeling goes away.

5. Stop collecting advice and do something

Justin quoted a Reddit post he once read: "self-development is like an addiction in and of itself." You read one more book, listen to one more podcast and wait for the perfect plan. My answer in the episode: "Just be better than your yesterday self." One small step done beats ten good ideas in a notebook.

6. Change your place, then your patterns

Justin's quick fix for feeling stuck is a short trip to a place where nobody knows you: "Go to another place and act like you imagined yourself to be". For a few weeks you can try out the person you want to become. I added one warning: "just changing a location doesn't mean that you're going to change your patterns". A new city with the same habits gives you the same life with better weather.

What this means if you are starting over

If you lost a job, moved country or feel stuck in work that pays but goes nowhere, start with Justin's list. Then pick your next job for what it will teach you, even if it pays a little less or sits one level down. Change one input this month: one new person in your field, one long interview a week instead of short videos. If you are changing fields, my guide on how to change careers walks through the steps in order.

When you want someone to build that plan with you and check in while you follow it, that is what my career change coaching is for. I work in English, German, Lithuanian and Russian.

Watch the full episode

The full conversation runs well over an hour and covers more than this article: growing up in Lithuania and Germany, honesty between friends, school, money and Justin's final advice to "Trust yourselves." Watch CHANGES episode 4 with Justin Laule on YouTube (opens in a new tab), or find every episode on the CHANGES podcast page. Guests speak for themselves, and Justin speaks his mind.

For another CHANGES conversation about rebuilding, read my notes on how to start over in life. And if you want to talk about your own career vs job question, book a call and tell me where you stand.